Friday, May 28, 2010

Ireland's Secret Courts

Childrens "Rights" Referendum back on the cards
Childrens "Rights" Referendum back on the cards

Reported last week in a Press Release that the Government will hold a Referendum in which several issues will be addressed. Among the items are;

    Inserting specific rights for children in the Irish Constitution
    Streamlining the Family Court System

In previous drafts of the Childrens Rights document which refers to Article 42, there was not one single right for children clearly defined in the document. Instead we had some wishy washy language such as "The State will endeavour to cherish all the children of Ireland equally".

In other parts of the Constitution you will see words such as "must" or "duty" and "guarantee", not terms like "will endeavour to" or "might" or "try to" or "cant make any promises". I can only imagine what the architects or the Constitution would make of the re-write. They are probably turning in their graves.

There was much discussion and debate about this so the Government, fearing that it would be defeated, came up with other excuses why the Document needed to be changed. It would "open the floodgates for all the Irish born children of Nigerian parents (who were deported) to re-enter the country legally". It would "allow for parents to demand special education for their children".

It would "allow parents to get treatment for their children in other countries at the expense of the Irish Taxpayer". God forbid that we should have to fork a few million to save the life of children who one parent described to me as "being on Death Row", after the HSE have handed down a "Death Sentence" to these children, an estimated 25 per year. I suspect that children wont have the Constitutional right to demand treatment for life-threatening conditions and that we will continue to see parents begging the Irish Public on TV3 (never see them on RTE for some reason) for money so that their child can receive treatment, often in 3rd World Countries.

The main opposition to the last draft was "who decides when a parent fails in his or her duty?", chances are it will be a newly graduated social worker and a judge who will accept heresay in court, will lower the burden of proof to mere suspicion and not allow the parents to know what evidence will be brought up against them. Most Irish people don't even realize that when accused of child abuse or neglect, that you will be tried in 2 seperate court for the same offence. If you are found not-guilty in a criminal court you will still be punished in a family court.

I haven't seen the new proposed Article 42 yet, so in fairness, cant speak about it with any authority. In the last few drafts, it became clear to a lot of people that changing Article 42 was more about parents giving up the right to determine what was in the best interests of their child to the Government, well let's be clear, not exactly the Government per se, the HSE to be more exact.

What I have consistently said is that it's more about allowing for Forced Adoption which although the Government tried to introduce this evil practice in Ireland by changing the Adoption Act so that they could introduce Forced Adoption just like Tony Blair did in the UK and Bill Clinton did in the USA. Only problem for the Government was that Article 42 of the Irish Constitution didn't allow for a child to be adopted against the parents wishes.


Every parent in Ireland should be aware of Forced Adoption. You can visit Ian Joseph's website Forced-Adoption.com to see for yourself what the UK Government have been doing and what the Irish Government have tried to do by changing the Adoption act. Why should we be concerned?

In the UK, the Blair Government paid hunderds of millions to Local Councils to "Increase Adoption Targets" of children in "Care". The Governments have known for some time that "Care" is extremely damaging to children. The Outcomes for children in "Care" are dismal so they came up with a plan, "lets get these kids adopted so the outcomes would improve", an improvement you might think, but unfortunately not. Governments and experts cannot claim to be ignorant of the outcomes for children, if they did so it would make them look incompetent, so they chose not to discuss it. The fact is that keeping children with their parents always results in better outcomes for children AND it's far less expensive. Adoption is not the panacea as one in four break-down and the child is handed back.

What happened was that the numbers of "white, healthy babies" being removed from parents increased dramatically. Nobody wants to adopt the Baby P's of this world and Social Services focused on "Adoptable" babies. This is a matter of public record, you can check this for yourself online. Interestingly what also happened was that the number of "less desirable" children plummeted. Also interesting what happened in the USA is that they paid a higher premium to adopt African American, Hispanic and "Disabled" children increased.

What also happened was that the reasons for removing children became so flimsy, "Risk of future emotional harm", female victims of domestic violence lost their children for "allowing their partner to shout in the home". It's important to note that the vast majority of parents who lost their children to Forced Adoption have never been accused or convicted or a crime. If someone abuses or neglects a child, in my opinion, they should lose their child IF they have been convicted of a crime. Removing a child and having the child forcibly adopted is punishment without crime. Google the case of Fran Lyon or Mark & Nicky Webster.

There is no doubt in my mind and that of many other people, that the ambitions of the Government is to introduce Forced Adoption in Ireland. The supposed benefits are that a child in "Care" gets a permanent home, the taxpayer wont have to pay between €339 and €4,500 per week/per child  and the child has a better outcome. Sounds good until you look at some other facts, children (mostly white healthy babies) will be removed in secret courts, one in four adoptions will break-down and the child returned to "Care" and more families will be damaged in the process.

The answer is simpler than anyone imagined, "You cant improve on Nature". The answer is to stop taking children into "Care" and support them and their families. In Ireland, the number of children in "Care" has DOUBLED since 2004, the same story in the UK where there are currently 90,000 in UK State "Care". Northern Ireland has the highest number statistically, interesting they also have the highest number of Social Workers per capita. The HSE use NI as an example of how "under-resourced" they are. What amuses me about this claim is that there were more than enough Social Workers to take children into "Care" but not enough to even visit the ones in their "Care"?. Empire Building by the HSE created the "shortage" of social workers so, in effect, this was a manufactured crisis by the HSE.

We now have a new Minister for Children, Frances Fitzgerald, a Social Worker by profession. Minister Fitzgerald made a dramatic announcement that the HSE will be removed from Child Protection. Let's examine that for a moment. A new State body will be set up to provide Child Protective Services, how is that going to work? Will we not see the same children "looked after" by the same Foster "Carers",  being visited by the same social workers, the same Judges, Solicitors, Forensic Psychologists, Guardian-ad-litems and the thousands of people who make up the Child Protection Industry, making millions damaging children in the process? I think at best it will be "re-branding", just a new letterhead and logo but the same incompetent, greedy people. Quite possibly they will be given new powers. As one solicitor told me, "they are more powerful than the Police, The KGB, the Mafia and Murder Incorporated, all they are missing is guns!.

To her credit, Minister Fitzgerald increased the support to children "Aging-Out" of the System, or what I call being dumped on the streets at age 18 by your loving Foster "Carers" who no longer receive a salary for looking after you or the Resindential "Homes" run by private (very private) who receive €4, 500 per week per child who dump these children on the street when the money dries up. I don't know exactly what help and support these children receive but I would give the Minister a big thumbs up for even trying.

As for the Family Court Referendum, I believe that Family Courts should be scrapped. There is no reason that these secret courts should exist. If child abuse or neglect is a crime, then it should be investigated by the Gardai, Prosecuted by the DPP, Judge by a Judge or Jury and punished by the Prison Service. As it stands, people are tried by 2 seperate systems, the Criminal Justice System and the Family Court.

With the Criminal System, any member of the Public may visit and Criminal Court from start to finish and the media report on the proceedings. 4 seperate bodies are involved and the standard of proof is Beyond a Reasonable Doubt. Generally this is seen as a fairy fair system although people are sometimes innocent but found guilty. The case of Nora Wall and Pablo McCabe springs to mind.

In the Family Court, The HSE investigate, prosecute and punish. Some say that they also Judge as Judges rarely refuse requests from Social Workers. Judges are so in fear of making a mistake that they go along with Social Services. If the judge sends the child home and the child comes to some harm, the reputation of the Judge on the line, if they grant all the wishes of Social Services and the child dies in their "Care" the Judge is absolved and nobody from the HSE is responsible. You are not entitled to know what evidence will be brought against you and Heresay "evidence" IS admissible. Innocence or guilt is not even an issue, everyone is punished and the Judge doesn't even hand down a written verdict. Want to see your children while they are in "Care"? you'll probably end up losing your job, your life savings and your home. You'll be destitute at the end of the process and living on Welfare. If you get your children back, they will be so damaged by the process that may never recover. Even children as young as 6 months are twice as likely to suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder which may four times more severe than troops returning from Afghanistan. And you are told that if you breathe a word of what happened to you by Judges, HSE and Gardai, that you will go to jail and your children will be taken into "Care".

It's important to realize that you are punished even if you have not been accused of a crime. Nobody ever makes mistakes in the HSE, they are always right and never accountable if a child dies. A child is 6 TIMES more likely to die in Irish State "Care" than in the care of their parents. You could lose all contact with your children without ever have been convicted of a crime. This is punishment without crime, it is unjust. If the Government ever find a way of removing the rights of a parent to decide what is in their childs best interest, Forced Adoption will become the norm as it has in the UK and USA.

Regardless of what the Government intend to do in setting up new Family Courts, you should vote against this. Family Courts are unjust and child abuse or neglect should not be in the remit of social services. Only the Gardai should be allowed to investigate crime, only the DPP should prosecute, only a judge should decide and grant orders, in serious cases, a jury should be empannelled and decide, the decision to remove parental rights is too severe a punishment to inflict on any pareent for the decision to be made by a single judge.

If I have said anything in this blog that you believe is not correct or that you may believe is misleading in any way, please respond with your comments. This blog is not censored or moderated in any way. I will respond as soon as I can.

Regards,

Joe Burns

77 comments:

  1. ireland has never cared about her children.

    We know this from history.

    We have been controlled by Roman and british Empires and still are, where children are second class cattle, there for the use of the rich to use and abuse.

    Remember the Catholic dogma- SUFFERING IS GOOD FOR CHILDREN- so why are we concerning oursleves.

    If the men in dresses and the boys in curls say I order your children to lives of misery and poverty, why would you dare question them and history.?

    Because it is WRONG

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  2. I found this on another page and thought it interesting. it seems that forced adoptions are definitely on the agenda.

    "Article 42 of the Constitution goes on to state:
    "5 In exceptional cases, where the parents for physical or moral reasons fail in their duty towards their children, the State as guardian of the common good, by appropriate means shall endeavour to supply the place of the parents, but always with due regard for the natural and imprescriptible rights of the child."

    I.e., the State already has Constitutional authority to intervene in families where there is some sort of genuine risk to the children. The proposed Amendment to "protect children", being orchestrated by Barbardo's, the ISPCC and foreign organizations includes extremely pernicious [bad and sneaky] provisions to increase dramatically the power of social workers to take children away from their parents. The recent baby Anne case was, by all accounts tragic for all concerned, but it highlighted a severe conflict of interest whereby the social worker knew the foster parents. The mother in that case changed her mind quite soon after parting with her baby daughter, at a time of emotional distress, apparently. However, because the legal procedures are so slow to act, it was then being used against the mother and baby Anne that so much time had passed with the baby being with the foster parents.

    Retired Supreme Court Justice Catherine McGuinness even stated unequivocally in a radio interview that she would not have ruled in favour of the mother to regain her child, if the Constitution had been Amended in the way proposed by Barnardo's / ISPCC / UN. I feel very sorry for the would-be foster parents, and like anyone else, I don't know all the details of the case, but I would definitely err on the side of the parents, and I strongly oppose the proposed Amendment to the Constitution, in its current form where 7 separate and unrelated issues are mashed together with the clear intention of confusing voters, and using emotional blackmail to railroad the changes into law.

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  3. this is louise rafter here i have been through the care system from 10 months old right up to 18, been sexually and physically abused also emotionaly i know what the hse are capable of they will do anything to take your child vote NO please......

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  4. Hi, There's an interesting discussion going on on Boards.ie http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055061243&referrerid=59211

    It seems that many of the posters are not going to support this change in the Constitution, I wont either after reading what you wrote here.

    My interpretation is that that a referendum is not necessary except as you say, to take away the rights of parents. Regards, John

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  5. I sent a copy of proposed amendments to a few legal experts in other countries and this is one of the responses.

    Hi Joe,

    2° Provision may be made by law for the adoption of a child where

    the parents have failed for such a period of time as may be prescribed by law in their duty towards the child, and where the best interests of the child so require.

    3. Provision may be made by law for the voluntary placement for adoption and the adoption of any child.

    These two paras seem contradictory so it must depend on how the judges interpret them !

    3 seems to say adoption must be voluntary, but 2 implies without actually stating it that where parents have "failed" adoption may take place forcibly .

    I think as it does not say the parents consent may be dispensed with it should mean the adoption cannot be forced but I would not bank on it !

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  6. Guardian at Litem services at risk under proposed new legislation.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0510/1224270044830.html

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  7. I find it laughable that our Minister for Children Barry Andrews last thursday said he supports the HSE to look after "Children at risk". Laughable because on the same day Prof Brendan Drumm said that the HSE would be better off if they didn't have to look after Child Protection.

    Don't these guys even talk to each other? no they don't talk, Barry Andrews even had to go to Court to get the HSE to disclose how many children died in "Care". The HSE are happy hiding behind the secrecy rule of the courts, it allows them to be unaccountable to anyone.

    The fact that Barry Andrews even gave a vote of confidence to the HSE for child protection shows the influence of the Lamb Sisters and Louise Rafter have had by campaigning outside the Dail (first and last wednesday of the month at noon)The Media have been listening so the Government have reluctantly followed suit.

    When the Government starts to realize as the Public surely have, that the experts have been lying to them for years and it's time to start listening to people like Louise Rafter who spent her life in "Care". The experts always advocated for "taking the child" based on flawed psychological theories didn't count on all the children growing up and turning against them and their rubbish theories. Wait for the next Redress Board when the children sue the experts who failed miserably in their "Duty of Care" and the Irish Public will again fork out.

    If the "Experts" get their way, the damage to children will be even worse than it is now and the cost of damaging even more children will be paid not just in cash but the negative affect on Irish Society. By voting NO! you will be sending a strong message and forcing the Government to overhaul the system.

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  8. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7823521/Forced-adoption-is-a-hidden-tragedy.html

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  9. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0614/1224272433197.html

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  10. This is my response to Helen Buckley in the Irish Times, not sure if they will publish it.

    Joe Burns
    Placing children in "Care" of the State is extremely hazardous to a child's health and well being.

    * A child is 6 times more likely to die in "Care" at the hands of the State than in the care of their parents.
    178 dead and 400 missing and presumed dead or forced into prostitution or slave labour.

    * 4 out of 5 girls leaving "Care" at age 18 are either pregnant or already have a child.

    * 42% of our prison population have been in "Care", the highest of any group.

    * 68% of boys will be homeless and destitute when they "age out" of the "care" system at age 18 (dumped on the streets.)

    * Less than 3% of "care" inmates will ever go on to further education.

    * 84% of youths currently in "care" use hard drugs and/or alcohol.

    * A child in Foster "Care" is likely to suffer Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in the region of 4 times more severe
    than troops returning from Afghanistan.

    * The HSE have 5,643 children in "care" currently, but about 400 are missing so nobody knows for sure.

    * The number of children taken into "care" tripled in a 3 year period 2004 to 2007, the plan is to increase this number TENFOLD in the coming years.

    It's time we stopped listening to the "Experts", they have too much blood on their hands. Chris is right, social workers break the law on a daily basis and soon they brought to justice, it's happening already.

    If you think the proposed changes to the Constitution are a good idea you should take a look at VoteNoTo42.com and get some insight into why the State makes a lousy parent. In case youre wondering, I'm not a parent, have no axe to grind, I'm not being paid to do this but I feel it is my duty as an adult human being to protect children, even from the State and the "Experts".

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  11. Joe,
    I have created the remedy for the Irish Family Court but no-one believes me. Join us over here if you want to know more:
    http://freemanireland.ning.com/forum

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  12. By the way. All men should STOP VOTING. It only encourages the criminal scumbags you call politicians. They use 'voting' to 'divide and conquere'. The answer is NO GUVMENT not 'vote out the current party' because the OTHER party has the same paymasters.

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  13. Thanks Globalman, re; the Family Court system.

    What needs to take place is;
    Social workers should not be allowed to be Investigator, Prosecutor and Jailer.

    The system should be "Inquisitorial" rather than "Adversarial".

    Judges should not grant "Ex Parte" hearings to social workers.

    Only specially trained Judges should work in the system.

    All proceedings need to be documented and recorded, currently no written verdict is handed down and the HSE don't even have to follow the recommendations of the Judge.

    All cases should be heard in less than 2 weeks rather than the current 2 months.

    Social workers and "experts" who pervert the course of justice and break the law should be punished. Malicious and false reports of child abuse should be punishable.

    The States "Duty of Care" should be backed up by a million euro bond so when children die or are harmed that funds are available to assist the child or their family. (not unlike malpractice insurance for doctors)

    There should be a mechanism for those falsely accused to even receive justice, currently only the HSE can investigate the HSE.

    I could go on and on but secret courts have no place in a "Just" and free democracy. Punishing people because they "may" commit a crime is ridiculous but we do this to children and families because someone believes them "at risk".

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  14. http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/hse-fails-to-fill-child-abuse-investigator-posts-122413.html

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  15. http://legallykidnapped.blogspot.com/search/label/Ireland

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  16. Well said Joe. Excellent article. People need to understand that society is dysfunctional because rather than in spite of government.

    This is true across the western world.

    Keep fighting the good fight.

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  17. Big money to be made in State sponsored kidnap.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7840626/Big-money-to-be-made-in-the-adoption-trade.html

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  18. Staffordshire social workers were also involved in the tragic case of Maureen Smith, the mother so desperate at the prospect of losing her two children that she fled to Spain, where she killed them before attempting suicide. As she wrote in her suicide note: “Social Services In Staffordshire and their policy of forced adoption are responsible for this.”

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  19. This is actually the most laughable thing I have ever read! I do not even know where to begin commenting on the made up statistics, sensationalism, lies etc in this piece of writing. I would love to know your background!

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  20. "Anonymous said...

    This is actually the most laughable thing I have ever read! I do not even know where to begin commenting on the made up statistics, sensationalism, lies etc in this piece of writing. I would love to know your background! "

    Lavina, since you don't provide your background I can only assume that you are a social worker.

    My background is that I don't have any children, no axe to grind and nothing to gain by this, I have been researching this for 2 years.

    Would you care to elaborate on your background? and perhaps you could elaborate on which statistics are incorrect.

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  21. She "would love to know your background!", she would come to your house tomorrow and take your kids!

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  22. It seems the Catholic Church will also ask people not to support the change to the Constitution but for a different reason. Here is an excerpt from a mail I received;

    The Family, Article 41


    The State recognises the Family as the natural primary and fundamental
    unit group of Society, and as a moral institution possessing inalienable
    and imprescriptible rights, antecedent and superior to all positive law.


    The State, therefore, guarantees to protect the Family in its
    constitution and authority, as the necessary basis of social order and
    as indispensable to the welfare of the Nation and the State.


    The Children’s Referendum is also insidious and a grave threat to the
    Family and to the protection of children. Touted as a referendum to
    protect children, it is nothing more than a ploy to transfer to State
    bodies the God-given rights and duties of parents, and, if passed into
    law could lead to the criminalisation of parents who, in conscience,
    object.

    As a concerned citizen, I am supporting the ‘Catholics in Politics’
    campaign that calls on politicians to vote down the Civil Partnership
    Bill whenever it comes before the Dail and to oppose the equally
    dangerous Children’s Referendum.

    Please acknowledge receipt of this letter.

    Yours sincerely,

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  23. This is from a discussion on FaceBook, I have left out the names of individuals and organizations to protect their identity. Every Minister in Government, almost every Childrens Organization supports the Constitutional change to Article 42 and many of the people voting Yes have never even read the Constitution or the proposed changes, they are simply supporting it because their favorite politician or charity are telling them to support it. Here's one response I posted;

    Joe, I understand your concerns, but I do wonder if you're exaggerating a bit, True, the state can sometimes do harm, but how often have children been sent back to abusive homes? would you prefer that to continue?
    I'm sure forced adoption would only happen in extreme circumstances. Children have the right to live in a happy and safe environment ... See more and we need to ensure that that right is there in the constitution and that everything is done to keep children safe. I think ******** is a very respectable organisation and I most certainly trust their point of view. They get all my support!"

    ******, to answer all your questions;
    "exaggerating a bit?" There are cases before the Irish Courts and European Courts right now, expect to see a whole flood of them soon and another Redress Board for the children currently in "Care". You can either sit back while children are harmed by the State or you can do something about it. 178 dead and 400 missing is no exaggeration.

    You say "True, the state can sometimes do harm", why do you find that acceptable? isn't the general idea to protect the child? Statistically the outcomes for children in State "Care" are dismal. Children are still being abused in State "Care" mostly by other children which doesn't make it any less acceptable.

    You say; "how often have children been sent back to abusive homes?" I would say practically never and the statistics prove this. I have heard social workers say "I left the home on friday not knowing if the child would be alive when I returned on Monday". I heard it so many times that I figured it came from a textbook, so now when I hear it I ask "and was the child ever harmed when you returned on monday" and the answer is always no. Children in most cases are removed not because of any actual harm but because of the notion of "Risk", the notion that something MAY (or may not) happen at some point in the future. Judges err on the side of caution because they don't want a dead child on their conscience, neither would I, but when you hear the case in court and the lack of any real evidence, it's no wonder the judges order the children returned immediately. In cases where the child is actually harmed there is a criminal prosecution but for every criminal prosecution there are 184 cases where the HSE have a Supervision Order or the child is in "Care", there is something very wrong here. Most cases of child abuse are investigated by 2 seperate bodies, the Gardai form a criminal perspective and the HSE from a Family Court perspective, in essence, if you harm your child you will be prosecuted TWICE. Even if you are vindicated in the criminal court you will still be punished in the Family Court. Families are left devastated, jobless, bankrupt and damaged from interventions by by the State, is that a good thing for their children?

    You say "Children have the right to live in a happy and safe environment" I wholeheartedly agree. What we need is social workers working as advocates rather than prosecutors. Remove the burden of investigating child abuse from the HSE and leave it to the Gardai who have 60 specially trained members and are highly skilled at investigation, unlike social workers who have no formal training in investigation and as evidenced by the Baby P case among hundreds of others seem to be useless at it.

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  24. Continued from above.....


    You say "I'm sure forced adoption would only happen in extreme circumstances", the Government want to remove the word "exceptional cases" from the Constitution to make it unnecessary to even listen to the family or extended family. Even though the Constitution supposedly guarantees that right, it is practically never adhered to. Ask the Lamb Sisters who's TWO nephews died in State "Care" despite attempts by the family to look after them. Under current Irish Law, the Lamb Sisters would not even be allowed into the Family Court. Ask Louise Rafter who grew up in State "Care" and lost several friends while they were in State "Care" or the many other friends who died after being dumped on the streets at age 18, many of them from suicide and drug overdoses. You can meet Louise or the Lamb Sisters outside the Dail at noon on the first and last wednesday of every month. They are protesting to get the HSE removed from the Child Protection Industry in Ireland.

    I agree that ********* are an excellent organization as are the *****. In an ideal World we would have no need for Charities to fill the gaps left by Government and thanks to their excellent work many people are helped. I did ask a few charities why they support this Legislation and if they support Forced Adoption and the general consensus was that Charities and other organization DON"T want us going the same was as the UK. They were told and I was told that "Forced Adoption is not on the agenda", however when you look at Article 42 of our current Constitution and the new proposed wording you will see that it is definitely on the agenda. I sent copies to legal experts and their view is that the Irish Government want to copy the UK and USA model because it will save them money. They will pay bonuses to social workers and charities to get children adopted so that they don't have to pay for Foster or Residential "Care". Let me ask you a question, if parents give up the right to determine what is in the best interests of their child, do you trust this Government or future Governments to do what is in the best interest of the child? I certainly don't, I think parents will always do the best for their kids, at least a family will love and guide a child which is more than the Government have to offer, this is why the system doesn't work, the Government can "Care" for a child but not provide Love.

    I'm just an ordinary individual, I have no children and no vested interest in the outcome of this Referendum. While numerous organizations might be prepared to accept a second rate Child Protection System, I am not, that's why I'm voting NO!.

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  25. The Iona Institute have an excellent statement which was issued to all the members of the Dail and Seanad which you can download at this link.

    http://www.ionainstitute.ie/assets/files/briefing%20Child%20Best%20Interest.pdf

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  26. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0625/1224273263147.html

    Curtain slips on routine dysfunction in the HSE

    My response to 1 comment;

    I'm very pleased that you have had pleasant dealings with your social worker, that is how it is supposed to be. I'm glad that you're not one of those parents we see on tv every day begging for money to take their children overseas for life saving surgery or 1 of the 125 children that one parent describes as on "Death Row" because the HSE keep pushing out operations because of a lack of beds, staff and money. We saved a paltry 25 Million closing a ward in Crumlin Childrens Hospital.

    However, your social worker does not work in the Child Protection Branch. Social workers who work with the disabled or the elderly have a mandate to advocate for their clients unlike their counterparts in CPS who have a mandate to Prosecute their clients. Unlike the Criminal Justice System where 4 separate bodies investigate, prosecute, judge and incarcerate, the CPS do 3 and don't always listen to the Judge.

    I believe history will judge John Waters very kindly and this will happen very soon as the HSE Child "Protection" Branch tumbles like a deck of cards. The system is being exposed now as cases start to appear before the Irish and European Courts. The truth is starting to emerge and the people of Ireland will vote NO! in the upcoming Children's Rights Referendum. 178 dead and 400 missing children not even counting the hundreds more who died after being tossed out on the streets at age 18 when the HSE had no further interest in them, this is only the tip of the iceberg. If anything, I believe John Waters is understating the case.

    The reasons I'm voting NO! are on my webpage VoteNoTo42.com,

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  27. Joe:
    I'm the one who posted about that SW being in the weeds (i.e. unable to see to forest for the trees) on LK.
    1. Any trial of facts and outcomes needs to be public (and where juries perform this, by jury).
    2. The evidence against any parent must be balanced by the same type of evidence against the agency, i.e. the court must find by clear and convincing evidence (or even better: beyond reasonable doubt) that the agency would actually be a better parent (most agencies track records include multiple child deaths and numerous care injuries and otherwise very poor outcomes for children (see the NCCPR's 80% Failure report). Parents must be given the same due process that criminals get.
    2. The child's representive must actually represent the child's actual best interest: staying in his home safely and knowledge of his genetic family history. Safety plans and removal of any abusive parent are to be preferred. A failure to protect is better served by a safety protection plan than removal.
    3. As more children are taken, it will result in more children unnecessarily placed with angry children and their carers who will abuse them more (generally much more). Remember every removal is a serious emotional abuse of a child and can only be justified if the child is being seriously abused or neglected.
    4. Placement with near relatives is to be preferred over placement with strangers. Relatives should not have to be trained but only given a reasonable background check. Considering that in many Urban centers many of the carers have criminal backgrounds (Source: Los Angeles County DCFS) minor nonviolent crimes shouldn't be held against them.
    5. Studies by an MIT Sloan economic professor and confirmed by the another group at a CIC (Acad. Big10 (12)) institute (UMN)show that in medium risk cases keeping a child at home results in far better outcomes.
    6. If Ireland were to lead the other Commonwealth states in reducing the incidence of child removal, while keep children safe and reducing the overall cost. I predict that many of the US states would be quick to follow.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Thanks RinkevichJM, excellent NCCPR report.

    We have an opportunity as you say in point 6./ that we can build a World Class System that is far better for children and costs considerably less and the World will follow our example. Since the "experts" have failed so dramatically it's time we listened instead to Economists, Statisticians, Ethicists and even Engineers. It's virtually impossible to argue with Psychobabble but totally impossible to argue with facts, which is why the "experts" wont argue, they just try to discredit the person making the arguement. As Dr. Phil would say "how's that working for you?"

    The system where social workers are at the core of investigating, prosecuting and "caring" for children is a disaster in every country where it's used. The notion of "risk" is what it is all based on and this leads to witch hunting, the statistics clearly prove this.

    The reason that "Care" doesn't work is very simple. Children need Love and an adult who will sacrifice everything for them. Parents have to make tough decisions to show the child where the limits are. "Warehousing" children in Foster and Residential "Care" is a 9 to 5 solution to a 24/7 problem. Imagine having to grow up all your life in an institution where nobody loves you, that's why it doesn't work.

    Thanks for the reports,

    Regards,

    Joe Burns

    ReplyDelete
  29. A brave and honest Irish judge
    Judge hits out at child care legislation
    Donegal District Court Judge Desmond A. Zaidan has hit out at child-care legislation that he claimed protects the HSE from accountability.

    He also criticised legislation that bans reporting of District Court hearings of family law cases.

    Judge Zaidan said he was concerned over secret emergency hearings when the HSE applies to take children, some only a day or two old, into care.


    He complained of a "lack of transparency" in the system. He said it was "shrouded in secrecy".

    The judge added at Donegal District Court that it was imperative to ensure there would be no repeat of the situation in the 20s, 30s and 40s when children "were at the receiving end of direct abuse of the State" in such institutions as industrial schools.

    He expressed the view that certain cases involving the HSE and children should be open to the media so long as steps were taken in reporting the proceedings to ensure the children were not identified.

    He believed a child at the centre of a dispute between its parents and the HSE should have independent legal representation.

    He said: "As a judge I think it all seems to be one-sided. There needs to be a more balanced approach."

    Judge Zaidan said that in two years on the bench he had not once refused an application by the HSE to take a child from its parents. That was because usually there would be "overwhelming" evidence by the HSE supporting an emergency application. Although it would be "one-sided evidence" he couldn't take a chance as he would have to act in the interests of the child.

    But, because the parents wouldn't have had time to obtain legal representation and because the child wouldn't be represented by a solicitor, opposing evidence might not be presented for several weeks by which stage a judge would be reluctant to overturn the original order.

    He was concerned that once the HSE was given care of the child there was no system of monitoring in open court how the youngster was faring in care.

    "Who polices the HSE?" he asked.

    He added: "A child can be taken from its parents from a day old. The child should have separate legal representation from its parents to keep an eye on what goes on when the child goes into the care of the HSE."

    ReplyDelete
  30. Like most people I followed the campaign by Charities to force a referendum on Childrens Rights. We were told that 83% of people would vote yes in a national survey. Then I read the small print at the bottom and found out it's not quite true, read on. The comments in parenthesis are mine)

    Notes to editor

    The Behaviour and Attitudes survey was conducted through face to face interviews with 877 adults in 63 sampling locations across the country. The sample is representative as quotas were controlled according to gender, age, social class and region:

    * Only 29% of respondents are aware that a referendum on children's rights is likely to be held later this year or early 2011.

    (no surprise there)

    * However, 83% indicate that they are likely to vote in such a referendum.

    (note "Vote" not vote yes)

    * When asked their likelihood of voting in favour or against the insertion of children's rights into the Constitution, 62% of adults would vote in favour, 1% would be against such a move with 37% saying they didn't know how they would vote.

    (37% undecided, most people voting have never read Article 42 of the Constitution)

    When specific questions were put to participants:

    * 92% agree that children should have right to such protection and care as is necessary for their safety and welfare.

    (correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't the HSE already "Protect" 5,643 children in "Care" not to mention the thousands of Supervision Orders? that would suggest to me that that children are being protected)

    * 89% agree that children's rights should be clearly laid out in the Constitution.

    (if childrens rights are not already covered why do we have the Childrens Act? and specific laws for the protection of children?)

    * 89% agree that the State should be able to intervene in families where children are at risk.

    (at the risk of repeating myself, don't we already have 5,643 children in "Care"? Don't the HSE already have 1,400 social workers and probably an equal number in Management? sounds to me that the State already have the power to intervene)

    * 87% agree that the State should intervene in families with great care for the rights of both children and family.

    (sounds like 87% of the public need to learn what is going on. "Great Care" would be nice, children would be less traumatized by the "great care" approach rather than the "Kafkaesque" approach that the HSE currently use)

    * 81% agree that children's and parent's rights should be balanced in the Constitution.

    (This referendum is not about "balancing" childrens rights, it's about removing the rights of parents to determine what is in the "Best interest of the child", a term by the way, coined by Hitler in the 1930's to justify his quest to create the "Aryan Race". Many people are voting Yes simply on the basis that the Charities recommend people support this, I find that a bit scary)

    Date Published: 23/06/2010

    Author: Saving Childhood Group

    ReplyDelete
  31. NATIONAL COALITION FOR
    CHILD PROTECTION REFORM

    80 PERCENT FAILURE:
    A Brief Analysis of the Casey Family Programs
    Northwest Foster Care Alumni Study

    By Richard Wexler, NCCPR Executive Director

    Imagine for a moment that you went to a doctor and he told you the following:
    • 80 percent of my patients dont get any better.
    • A lot of the time, they get worse.
    • One-third of the time, I commit malpractice.
    But, the doctor continues, if youll just pay me even more money than I already get and build me a fancy new hospital, Im sure I can reduce my failure rate to only about 60 percent. Do we have a deal?

    Odds are you'd look for another doctor.
    But what if all the other doctors told you the same thing? And what if none of them let on that there were, in fact, better treatments with fewer side effects?
    Odds are you'd be furious.

    Now, consider a study released on April 7, 2005 by a large, Washington State-based foster-care provider, Casey Family Programs, and Harvard Medical School. The study used case records and interviews to assess the status of young adult alumni of foster care.

    When compared to adults of the same age and ethnic background who did not endure foster care:
    • Only 20 percent of the alumni could be said to be doing well. Thus, foster care failed for 80 percent.
    • They have double the rate of mental illness.
    • Their rate of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder was double the rate for Iraq War veterans.
    • The former foster children were three times more likely to be living in poverty and fifteen times less likely to have finished college.
    • And nearly one-third of the alumni reported that they had been abused by a foster parent or another adult in a foster home.

    The authors went on to design a complex mathematical formula to attempt to figure out how much they could improve these outcomes if every single problem besetting the foster care system were magically fixed. Their answer: 22.2 percent.

    Even if one argues that foster care didnt cause all of these problems, clearly foster care didnt cure them. Yet the authors of the study recommend only more of the same: Pour even more money into foster care to fix it to the point that maybe the rotten outcomes could be reduced by 22.2 percent.

    ReplyDelete
  32. http://www.derossa.com/showPage.php?ID=2579&PHPSESSID=d4576e6b063f82a80c7111d3683ee783

    National shame that govt has 'lost' 500 child asylum seekers

    24/06/2010



    It is a matter of national shame that the EU needs to take legal action against the Government to get it to protect unaccompanied children seeking asylum in Ireland, in line with an EU directive which Michael McDowell as Minister for Justice agreed five years ago, Labour MEP Proinsias De Rossa said today.



    Mr De Rossa was responding to today's announcement that the European Commission is referring Ireland to the European Court of Justice for failing to enact the 2005 EU directive on asylum procedures into Irish law by the December 2007 deadline.



    "We know that in the past ten years, over 500 children have gone missing from HSE care having arrived in Ireland as unaccompanied children seeking asylum here. This figure shows carelessness and the appalling inadequacy of the accommodation provided for these children. In most cases they were put into hostels without any adequate adult supervision, particularly during the night-time – and were thus extremely vulnerable to exploitation or abuse.



    "The EU law accepted by the Minister for Justice Michael McDowell TD in 2005, provides that 'specific procedural guarantees' for unaccompanied minors should be laid down and, in this context, the best interests of the child should be a primary consideration of the Government.



    "The Commission says that while the Government has implemented some of its provisions over the past three years, the directive has not been implemented in full. Specifically, the Commission says the Government has yet to implement requirements regarding guarantees for unaccompanied minors, amongst others.



    It should also be borne in mind that MEPs and the European Council for Refugees and Exiles was extremely critical of the 'minimum standards' set down in this legislation when it was being adopted five years ago by EU Justice Ministers.



    "In early May, the Commission issued proposals for an EU Action Plan to increase the protection of unaccompanied children entering the EU. EU statistics released last Friday indicate that 12,200 applications for asylum were made by such unaccompanied minors across the EU last year.



    "The Government must immediately comply with its obligations to care and protect children who are in this jurisdiction, regardless of where they come from and commit to playing a full role in the new EU Action Plan on unaccompanied children.

    Labour MEP Proinsias De Rossa

    ReplyDelete
  33. Proof that UK councils took more children into "Care" to make more money.

    by Hammersmith and Fulham Press Office
    10/03/2008
    101 children adopted in the last three years
    More than 100 children have been adopted in the borough during the last three years, after the Council met a target from central Government target that many experts thought would be unachievable.
    The Government target, known as a Local Public Service Agreement (LPSA), challenged the Council to successfully achieve 101 adoptions or secure placements during the last three year period in return for £500,000 of funding.
    At the time, the Council felt that the bar was set too high, as in the previous three year period only 71 children had been adopted - a figure that was then considered to be very high.
    However, H&F’s adoption team swung into action and pulled out all of the stops in order to meet the target. In part, this was made possible by the adoption team linking up with the Council’s legal department and cutting down on the amount of bureaucracy that prospective adopters had to deal with. All of the 101 children in question were already in care and may have remained so had it not been for the Council’s adoption team. 
    Cllr Antony Lillis, Cabinet Member for Community and Children’s Services, said: "It really is fantastic that we have been able to secure permanent placements for so many children, greatly increasing the chance that they will form secure attachments, and thereby go on to achieve economic well being, and enjoy a happy and fulfilling life.
    "The Council's objective is to make H&F a borough of opportunity for all. This excellent news means that we have created opportunities for 101 children whose start in life was the least promising."
    For details about adoption in Hammersmith & Fulham, call 0800 169 3497.

    ReplyDelete
  34. €90m a year to keep children in care

    By Catherine Shanahan

    Tuesday, September 29, 2009

    THE State is spending almost €90 million a year to keep about 400 children in residential care, at an average cost of €4,294 per child per week.

    In addition, a small number of children are sent overseas for treatment at an average cost to the taxpayer of €4,692 per child per week. Last year, the cost of sending nine young people out of the state for treatment to locations in Britain, and Nebraska in the USA, cost €2.2m, almost €250,000 per child.

    Here at home, the average annual cost of keeping a child in care is more than €220,000.

    The Health Service Executive (HSE) said placements out of state are required:

    * Where children exhibit problematic behaviour, such as self-harming, deviant sexual behaviour or extreme oppositional behaviour.

    * In cases where children require therapeutic intervention and care 24/7.

    * In cases where children require psychological education treatment.

    * In cases where services offering a disability or mental health component are not available in Ireland.

    "Given that less than 1% of young people in care require these specialised placements, it would not be feasible to establish such services in Ireland," the HSE said. Overseas services used by the HSE include Fresh Start UK and Five Rivers UK, who also provide services here, as well other facilities in England, Northern Ireland, Wales, and Nebraska in the US.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Continued from above post.....


    The Irish Association of Social Workers (IASW) said while generally foster care was preferable to placing children in care homes, some children had needs so complex that foster families could not cater for them.

    IASW president Ineke Durville said children had to be accommodated based on their needs, but that the number of children entering care could be reduced if adequate early intervention services were available.

    "The emphasis needs to be on early intervention to prevent them coming into care in the first place, but the reality is most social care teams are running a crisis intervention service, rather than a proper social work service," Ms Durville said.

    Ms Durville said the likelihood of children remaining in care for long periods was heightened by the fact that 16% of children in residential care did not have an allocated social worker.

    Placing children in foster care is far more cost-effective than use of residential care homes. Foster carers receive a weekly payment of €325 per child under 12 years of age and €352 for those over 12 and the bulk of 5,676 children in care at the end of July 2009 are in foster care.


    This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Tuesday, September 29, 2009

    Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/euro90m-a-year-to-keep-children-in-care-102130.html#ixzz0SbPotwDe

    ReplyDelete
  36. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0706/breaking46.htm

    Here's a part of the article, you can read the full text at the link above

    Youths in care concerned over inspections

    GENEVIEVE CARBERY

    Young people in residential care have said inspectors do not spend enough time with them during their visits, according to a report published today.

    Children and young people in care were asked for their views of the Health Information and Quality Authority inspections as part of the report by the Irish Association of Young People in Care and HIQA.

    HIQA said the report was a first step in trying to listen to young people and it would closely consider and start to implement recommendations.

    The findings were particularly important in light of the recommendation in the Ryan report that inspectors should talk to and listen to children in care , Dr Marion Witton, chief inspector of social service in HIQA said.

    The report follows severe criticism of care system in reports earlier this year and the setting up of an investigation of the deaths of at least 188 children in care or known to social services in the past decade...........

    ReplyDelete
  37. The Trojan Horse theory of Child Protection

    http://www.surveillance-and-society.org/ojs/index.php/journal/article/view/trojan_horse/trojan_horse

    ReplyDelete
  38. Children at risk need action, not another magic set of rights
    It's incompetence and neglect in the system that need addressing, not the Constitution, writes Eilis O'Hanlon

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/children-at-risk-need-action-not-another-magic-set-of-rights-2263216.html

    Sunday July 18 2010

    There were once two ombudsmen called Emily. It sounds like the start of a joke, relic of an age when senior public servants were automatically assumed to be male, rather than nowadays when tradition dictates that ombudsmen, like presidents, must be female.

    Ombudsman One is Emily O'Reilly: blonde bombshell, former thinking man's Nancy Drew, and future Aras resident if the rumours are to be believed.

    Ombudsman Two is Emily Logan, about whom less is known but who is surely destined to become just as famous in the coming months as the country embarks on another futile debate about whether to enshrine the rights of the child in the Constitution.

    Logan used the launch of her office's fifth annual report last week to express her own view that such a change was urgently required. But then she is the Ombudsman for Children, so that's a bit like expecting a plumber to tell you everything's fine with your pipes and there really is no need to pay him through the nose to dig up your bathroom floor. What else was she going to say?

    An Bord Snip has already suggested that her office be scrapped, though the Government reappointed her last year for another six-year term because it would have looked bad at a time when reports were being published into the clerical abuse of children to have sent an official defender of children's rights to the dole queue. She's hardly going to make it easy for them next time.

    And to be fair, most experts seem to agree, not least children's charities like Barnardos, which is running an online poll with the not-at-all-loaded question, "Do you believe in changing the Irish Constitution to finally stand up for children's rights?" -- making anyone who's not 100 per cent sure such a change is the right way to go feel like a heartless brute who thinks children should be sent up chimneys.

    Far be it from anyone to disagree with such eminent and esteemed bodies, but what difference would it make if the Constitution got a new paragraph? It would be lovely, yes, and make us all feel cosy and warm inside, but what actual practical day-to-day difference would it make to any child in Ireland to know that the Constitution enshrined their rights in black and white? Would it stop one single child from being abused? Help one child who's being bullied? One child who is neglected or hungry?

    All the bad things which can happen to a child are already illegal and have been for some considerable time. They still happen because no one listens, as was demonstrated again last week by the publication of a report by inspectors from the Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA) which found, shockingly, scandalously, scarily, that some children had been placed in the care of abusive foster parents for years despite the fact that social services had been alerted to what was going on by members of the public. In one case a child who ran away from the foster home because of physical abuse was returned to the family before the abuse was even investigated.

    Continued below.....

    ReplyDelete
  39. Continued from above........
    Hundreds of children, HIQA revealed, were left in care in Dublin alone without a single visit from social workers. The HSE did not even know how many children it had in care in the area or where they were, and, despite confirming four cases of abuse to their own satisfaction, only one case was referred to the gardai.

    Many foster carers had not even been vetted for criminal convictions, and some who had been turned down in one area were able to become foster carers in another. Some children were so lost within the system that they missed a chance to return to their birth families.

    Seriously, what have constitutional amendments got to do with anything when there is this level of incompetence and neglect?

    Emily Logan insists it's "easier to violate the rights of people who are not socially powerful", and no one is denying that. But being patronised by a few meaningless phrases in the Constitution doesn't suddenly make one socially powerful. The Constitution, after all, says that a woman shouldn't have to work outside the home, because being a wife and mother is the most important role a woman can fulfil in society.

    That doesn't mean every working mother is able to leave work and take a case to the Supreme Court demanding that the State pays her mortgage. Likewise, the Irish Government is already a signatory to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which asserts, among other fairy tales, that children everywhere not only have the right to be free of want and fear, but also that they have the right to education and healthcare, and the right to "play, leisure, (and) cultural activities".

    What's the point of heaping up yet another magic set of "rights" if the ones which children allegedly have already aren't worth the paper they're written on?

    The referendum junkies will get their way in the end. It's only a matter of time. For the Government, it would be an easy victory. Hardly anyone is going to vote against a constitutional amendment to protect children, whatever the predictions of a divisive and nasty debate over alleged State interference in the sanctity of family life -- not least because the wording will probably consist of vague Pollyanna-ish platitudes like that laughable guff about women in the home in order to minimise opposition.

    Afterwards, the same problems will remain, which is how best to protect vulnerable children in the context of nearly 200 of them having died in State care in the last decade alone. At-risk children don't need armies of pin-striped constitutional lawyers raking it in as they argue the toss on an hourly rate over where to put the commas in any amendment before heading to the Shelbourne for cocktails.

    What they need is for guards and social workers and HSE managers to stop making excuses and finally start doing what they're paid to do. Because whatever's been stopping them from doing their jobs properly up to now, it sure ain't the Constitution.

    Sunday Independent

    ReplyDelete
  40. Barnardos says "HSE incapable of protecting children"

    'HSE is incapable of protecting children,' says expert


    By Anita Guidera

    Friday July 23 2010

    ONE of the experts reviewing the deaths of children in care has claimed that the HSE is incapable of fulfilling its role of protecting children.

    Norah Gibbons, director of advocacy at the children's charity Barnardo's, delivered a damning indictment of a service she described as "confused and unwieldy" at the MacGill Summer School yesterday.

    "There is a lack of leadership, a lack of clear national standards, a lack of a clear assessment model and no national agreement on the threshold we as a nation want to set in respect of protecting our children," she said.

    Ms Gibbons is one of two people currently reviewing the deaths of children who were, or had recently been, in the care of the HSE at the time of their deaths, or who were known to the child-welfare system.

    She is chairing the HSE inquiry into the childcare case in Roscommon.

    Referring to last week's HIQA report on foster care, Ms Gibbons quoted Minister for Children Barry Andrews, acknowledging management failings within the HSE.

    "He has worked hard in many ways to improve things for children in need of protection. He is still of the view that the HSE is the only way to go.

    "Well, minister, I have to disagree. I know the arguments that child welfare and protection services need to work closely together, that communication between disciplines is essential, but the evidence all points in one direction -- the HSE is not fit for the purpose of protecting the welfare of children, it is not fit for the task," she said.

    She told delegates that the HSE had been established at arm's length from the Department of Health, and had "no clear leadership with specific expertise in the area of child welfare and protection".

    While welcoming the minister's announcement of the appointment of a national director for child and family services, she warned that unless the director was supported nationally and regionally she or he was likely to fail.

    "They are going into a confused and unwieldy system that is much more committed, with some notable exceptions, to protecting itself than to protecting children," she said.

    The child-welfare advocate stressed that there needed to be a serious examination on how the child-protection system could be overhauled. "Without drastic re-focusing and real intention to change, our system will continue to fail children across Ireland," she said.

    - Anita Guidera
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hse-is-incapable-of-protecting-children-says-expert-2269734.html


    Joe Burns says "you're close Norah, but the truth is that the HSE damages far more children than it helps. If the system is so bad then why do Barnardos want to give even more draconian powers to the HSE?"

    ReplyDelete
  41. Proposed amendment to constitution on children's rights and why it's ill advised
    So far as I can see there isn't an existing thread on this topic - would be interested to hear what others think. Below is an article which was published in the Irish Examiner - reproduced in full with their permission here:

    Denying parental rights is a big mistake

    Children’s rights groups should address the failure of state to safeguard children, not seek to deny parents the right to hold the state to account, writes Miriam Cotton

    ASHLEY BALBIRNIE of the ISPCC is the latest in a line of people, including Jillian Van Turnhout of the Children’s Rights Alliance (CRA) and Fergus Finlay of Barnardos, who are effectively inverting the facts of the history of abuse in Ireland to secure increased power over our children for state bodies, other institutions and their associated professionals.

    That they would do this at the expense of the existing, inalienable and natural rights of parents to care for and protect their children is to add insult to injury.

    The proposed constitutional amendment on children is as infantilising of parents as it is insulting to them and the condescension with which it is being sold to us is insufferable. They have no monopoly on the moral high ground and are no more concerned about the care and protection of all Irish children than we are ourselves?

    The bottom line about real rights is that money has to be spent to uphold them. High principles and the best of motives are fatally undermined in the children’s rights amendment by elastic caveats such as “as far as is practicable” for example. “As far as is practicable” is not a guarantee of a right but its exact opposite.

    The rights that are actually at issue are the rights to act on behalf of children and the proposal is to take this authority from parents and replace it with, in effect, nothing.

    This is as dangerous as it is bizarre because the only protection many children have is the authority of their parents to seek redress for them — sometimes on the very constitutional grounds that these well-intentioned people are now trying to eliminate.

    Right now, there are children in agonising pain because of an arthritic condition. Mary Harney’s health service will not provide them with the medication quickly enough to alleviate the pain and help prevent the condition degenerating. This is a form of child abuse by any measure of humanitarian values. Parents need more legal authority, not less, to bring the state to account for this sort of failure.

    The law already permits professionals extraordinary powers of intervention where there is reason to believe children are at risk. It is, therefore, not the absence of protective law or powers that has been the problem but the failure of the very professionals who are calling for more powers to exercise what power they already have.

    Despite what Mr Balbirnie would have us believe, in many cases where children have been abused by their parents, there has been a frustrating failure by social workers and others to intervene effectively.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Continued...........
    Though some of this failure is a consequence of chronic under-funding, the proposed amendment would do nothing to address that problem. And where was the ISPCC, founded in 1889, through- out the period when this state- sponsored and facilitated abuse was taking place?

    Instead of establishing a default position whose legal effect is to suspect the worst of all parents — despite all the fine rhetoric about the importance of parents — the ISPCC, the CRA and others would be better employed tackling the ongoing failures of the state in fulfilling its duty of care to children.

    Lastly, there has been a tendency to hold out as justification for the amendment the horrific details of the abuse by a tiny minority of parents of their children. This is an unworthy tactic, a powerful form of emotional blackmail which seeks to imply that those who believe this constitutional amendment will do the opposite of what is being claimed are not taking this abuse seriously. If this tactic is deployed much further, the referendum may well degenerate into a bitter and socially divisive affair — the last thing any of our children need to witness right now — especially those coping with abusive situations."
    (Miriam Cotton)

    Edit
    Final report of the Oireachtas committee with wording of proposed amendment.


    Scroll down to page 15 of the report. The two key passages are these:

    Art 42 1.2. proposed new wording:

    The State recognises and acknowledges the natural and imprescriptible
    rights of all children including their right to have their welfare regarded as
    a primary consideration and shall, as far as practicable, protect and
    vindicate those rights.

    Here, immediately, is a major caveat which encompasses and undercuts all of the rights mentioned later. Not a single legally enforceable right has been secured. As with the disability legislation before it, virtually every sentence mentions rights but there are none whatsoever.

    42.4

    "...The state as guardian of the common good shall by proportionate means, as shall be regulated by law, endeavour to supply or supplement the place of parents."

    Proportionate is a very elastic term. Its meaning is not defined and so will have to be interpreted. Neither over-intrusive intervention nor failures of intervention are adequately catered for here. When it comes to looking after children themselves, the state only has to endeavour to do it - not actually succeed. Why is there a different standard of care for the state than for parents?

    The state, and not parents, would be the legal entity with the inalienable rights of protection over children which are by this wording lost to them. So where is the concomitant specified right of parents to hold the state and its agents to legal account when they fail children? The rights we have now under Arts 41 and 42 have been hugely important in providing legal grounds for challenges against the state in some key cases.
    http://www.politics.ie/health-social-affairs/134201-childrens-rights-referendum-game-political-bluff-2.html

    ReplyDelete
  43. Dr. Gerard Hogan in his written submission addressed the difficulties surrounding
    State intervention, but he considered this difficulty by reference to the proposed
    Article 42.4 namely the principle of the best interests of the child. He disagrees with a
    number of supporters of the amendment, who advocate a direct inclusion of the “best
    interests” principle into the Constitution. He says that:
    …Those who support this sort of constitutional change perhaps do not
    appear to have sufficiently reflected on the implications were such a principle
    to be incorporated into the Constitution or if the courts were called upon to
    apply such a principle in everyday litigation or if they were called upon to test
    the validity of legislation by reference to this principle.
    Having considered the Supreme Court case North Western Health Board v. H.W.
    [2001] 3 IR622 (otherwise known as the PKU case), he continued as follows:
    97
    The HW case sums up the dilemma at the heart of this issue. It is all very well
    to say that children’s best interests must be safeguarded. But who is to decide
    this and what does it mean? Save in stark cases - such as B v. National
    Maternity Hospital where the child’s life was at risk - the State can intervene
    only with caution. Otherwise, there would be a real risk - as Murray J.
    pointed out - that parents with singular and unorthodox views would find
    themselves overridden by official intervention. Should, for example, the State
    (through the courts) administer the MMR vaccine to all children, irrespective
    of the views of those parents who conscientiously object to its administration,
    where medical advisers concluded that the parents’ objections were not well
    founded?

    ReplyDelete
  44. Continued......
    If, for example, there is a custody dispute along the lines of the Baby Ann case
    [N v Health Service Executive [2006] 4 IR 322] between the natural parents
    and prospective adoptive parents in respect of a very young child, does it
    mean that the State should be neutral - all other things being equal - as
    between the natural parents and the adoptive parents? If that is so, then the
    affluent and educated adoptive parents, living in comfortable circumstances
    will win out at the expense of natural parents with no such advantages. And if
    we say that child’s interests should be separately represented in such cases,
    who exactly is going to give instructions to such a legal team and which
    choice of prospective custodians will they decide to opt for and why?
    …If one proceeds to apply the “best interests” test - such as along the lines
    envisaged by the proposed Article 42A.4 - then one would have to accept that
    cases such as these might well be decided differently, with the potential for
    hugely difficult and sensitive decisions concerning the family being taken by
    representatives of the State such as courts, social workers and officialdom. Of
    course, the line is not easy to draw, because failure to act may well expose
    vulnerable children to harm. In my view, experience has shown that Article
    42.5 as it stands is sufficiently flexible and has weathered the test of time as
    98
    well as any formula is likely to do. One could not, therefore, lightly
    recommend change on this point.
    Parents for Children also opposed this amendment, stating:
    This is a very dangerous change to the Constitution. Regardless of what any
    other Article in the Constitution might say, this provision in one fell swoop
    dispenses with all parental rights at the whim of a judge (depending on
    legislation) and allows the court at all times to decide what is in the best
    interests of a child;
    It will be argued that other Articles in the Constitution uphold children's
    rights to parental protection and advocacy; however these Articles will not
    protect families against the power of this provision. Take, for example, the
    right of parents to make decisions in regard to their children's education.
    Article 42 which protects the right to home-school and make other
    educational decisions, is not altered by this proposal, but since the State may
    decide that the rights of the child include a right to a State education it is
    certainly affected. Under this section a court may decide that it is in the best
    interest of the child to attend a state-approved school or be subject to certain
    school programmes. This article empowers a judge to remove children from
    their parents and place them in care so that they can be assured of receiving
    court or state approved-education.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Dr. Gerard Hogan is a Professor of Law at Trinity College Dublin.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Who Decides?

    "Article 42(A).2.2°: Involuntary Adoption
    Provision may be made by law for the adoption of a child where the parents have
    failed for such a period of time as may be prescribed by law in their duty towards the
    child, and where the best interests of the child so require.
    If the provision allowing the Oireachtas to legislate for the period of failure of duty
    were deleted, then the current situation would continue, and the 1988 Act would
    represent the law as far as involuntary adoptions were concerned.
    103
    The 1988 Act was the subject of an Article 26 reference to the Supreme Court and
    was confirmed to be in conformity with the provisions of the Constitution. Absent a
    constitutional amendment, any new legislation providing for a lesser period of failure
    of duty to allow for the adoption of children against the wishes of their parents,
    particularly married parents, is unlikely to be upheld."

    ReplyDelete
  47. http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=291&highlight=Childrens%27+Referendum

    ReplyDelete
  48. http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/without-reform-vulnerable-children-will-remain-at-risk-2270877.html

    ReplyDelete
  49. State sponsored kidnapping and the media don't want to cover it?

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0806/1224276309497.html

    ReplyDelete
  50. Constitution invalid under Law?

    There is a line in section 24 "whether under the Constitution or ortherwise,"

    Does this mean that regardless of what is in the Constitution is to be disregarded as Law over-rides the Constitution?

    You might get the impression from some scare mongers that children are not currently protected under law but reading below you see it has always been the case. Only problem is in secret courts they do what they like without fear of accountability.

    24.—In any proceedings before a court under this Act in relation to the care and protection of a child, the court, having regard to the rights and duties of parents, whether under the Constitution or otherwise, shall—
    ( a ) regard the welfare of the child as the first and paramount consideration, and
    ( b ) in so far as is practicable, give due consideration, having regard to his age and understanding, to the wishes of the child.

    ReplyDelete
  51. http://medicalmisdiagnosisresearch.wordpress.com/2010/09/25/lack-of-transparency-in-irish-family-law-leads-to-breaches-of-human-rights/

    ReplyDelete
  52. http://legallykidnapped.blogspot.com/2010/10/mother-cannot-fight-adoption-order.html

    ReplyDelete
  53. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1029/1224282232931.html

    ReplyDelete
  54. State failing to protect tortured children

    By Cormac O’Keeffe

    Thursday, June 24, 2010

    CHILDREN are being left in families where they are being tortured and physically abused because the state’s ability to intervene is restricted by the Constitution, according to a child law expert.

    Solicitor Catherine Ghent said children whose parents are married are "discriminated against" and "placed at greater risk" under the Constitution as the state can only move in where there is "an immediate and fundamental threat" to the child.

    She was speaking at the publication of an opinion poll which showed almost two thirds of adults surveyed said they would vote in favour of a new referendum on children’s rights.

    An Oireachtas committee recommended last February that a referendum should be held to enshrine the rights of children in the Constitution, but no date has been set by the Government.

    Senior counsel Mary Ellen Ring said this failure to set a date was a "continuing denial of rights to children and a slap in the face to the community", which had clearly indicated in the poll that it wanted these rights put into the Constitution.

    The poll was commissioned by Saving Childhood, representing nine children’s rights groups.

    The poll found:

    * 62% said they would vote in favour of a referendum.

    * 37% did not know how they would vote.

    * 29% were aware of the intended referendum.

    Ms Ghent said the current constitutional situation can have a "very negative" impact on children.

    "It’s not an exaggeration to say parents have tortured their children; they have been beaten so badly that they break limbs," she said, and then they are being sent home to their abusers.

    Children can be so badly injured they require stitches. "Parents have held children over fires until their hair singed and they are sent home; children are generally terrorised by parents and they are sent home; a four-year-old child sent to care for the ninth time and still sent home. That’s the reality."

    She said children of married parents are discriminated against. "The test for intervention in a married family is there must be an immediate and fundamental threat to the capacity of the child to operate as a human person.

    "There are exceptional circumstances in exceptional families, where children can be left in a very dangerous situation and the state’s ability to intervene is curtailed by the Constitution."

    Ms Ring said the focus should be on the 37% who didn’t know how they would vote. She said they needed to be reassured that what was being proposed was not "radical" and did not mean families would be "torn asunder".

    She said the Oireachtas committee had done all the work, including proposed wordings, and the Government just had to set a date.

    Fergus Finlay of Surviving Children called on the Government to set a date.



    This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, June 24, 2010


    Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/home/state-failing-to-protect-tortured-children-123288.html#ixzz14D6ZL5m3

    ReplyDelete
  55. Continued.........

    Who came up with the idea of changing the Constitution? the HSE of course. When the truth started to emerge of how dysfunctional the "Care" system really is, the Government went to the HSE and asked how to fix this problem. The HSE said "we want to be even more powerful, take 10 times more children, we want bigger budgets, more people and we want to remove the rights of parents to determine what is in the best interests of their own children", the Government said "no problem but we will have to change the Constitution to do this". The 80 Childrens Charities will also be beneficiaries of this change, rather than paying anywhere from 390 to 4300 PER WEEK PER CHILD, we will take children away from parents and put young children up for adoption and parents cant complain as they gave away their rights to determine what is in their childs best interest to the State. Charities in the U.K. made a lot of money when Forced Adoption was introduced.

    We were told with NAMA that anyone who is part of the problem should not be part of the solution. With the HSE Child Protection Fiasco they went straight to the "Experts", essentially the people who created this mess to begin with, and asked them "how do we fix this". In my opinion we fix this by getting rid of the "experts" and those with vested interests and listen to the children who have been so damaged by these people.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Another NO! supporter, MARIA Mhic MHEANMAIN of the Group "Parents For Children".

    The Irish Times - Monday, May 31, 2010
    Referendum of children's rights

    Madam, – One has to wonder whether the eight so-called child advocacy groups are joking in their call for a “children’s rights referendum” (Front page, May 21st).

    They have been rightly critical of the State’s behaviour towards children over the decades, and yet ask the parents of Ireland to hand over the responsibility for vindication of their children’s rights to this same State. One only has to read the proposed amendment to see that it will not insert a children’s rights clause into the Constitution, (that already exists under Article 42.5). What it will do is make the State the sole vindicators of children’s rights, with parents relegated to the role of guardians of their children’s welfare on behalf of the State.

    From the abuse of children in State-run institutions in the past, to the deaths of children in care today, the history of the State’s dealings with children is a litany of sins of commission and omission.

    Maybe Barnardos, Cari, ISPCC, et al, should tell the parents of Ireland why they believe the State is so deserving of the tremendous, awesome and wonderful privilege of vindicating our children’s rights. – Yours, etc,

    MARIA Mhic MHEANMAIN,

    Elizabeth Street, Dublin 3.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Facts ignored as we set off to ape worst excesses of UK childcare

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1105/1224282724278.html

    JOHN WATERS

    I WAS struck by a letter in this newspaper on Saturday last, from Dr Bobby Smyth, a TCD lecturer on health matters. It referred to the reporting of the “Roscommon abuse case”, and the fact that its most striking aspect has been ignored.

    “Alcohol,” Smyth observed, “was central to the abuse and neglect of these children.”

    Yes. The word “alcohol” appears 34 times in the Gibbons report, which outlines evidence suggesting that both parents had a “considerable dependence”, leading to most of the family income being spent on alcohol.

    The older children were routinely left to care for the younger ones while their parents were in the pub. Sometimes the children were taken to the pub and remained there while their parents got drunk. There are descriptions in the report of children trudging from the shops carrying bags full of alcohol.

    Once, the mother gave birth after drinking 11 vodkas and becoming so drunk she did not realise she was in labour.

    It is clear that representatives of States agencies did not understand the nature of the addictions from which these parents were suffering. If they had, they would have intuited that there was a high risk of forms of abuse other than neglect, as alcohol is notoriously a disinhibitor in the area of morals as well as of other culturally imposed restraints.

    Another remarkable aspect of the reporting of this case has been that, despite the State’s key child-protection office-holders (Minister for Children, Government Special Rapporteur on Child Protection, Ombudsman for Children) all stating that the Constitution was not relevant, the media continues to run articles and broadcast items based on the premise that the case indicates we need constitutional change.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Continued.....
    Mary O’Rourke was given a free run on numerous platforms to promote her own agenda in this context. Asked to show how this case showed the Constitution to be deficient, she blustered: “We can’t be righteous enough with this matter. We should be righteous and more righteous.”

    Very well. If we are to pursue O’Rourke’s “righteous” logic to its conclusion, it is clear what we must do: impose an outright ban on the sale and consumption of alcoholic drink. Yes, this will affect the rights of many citizens, but we must be “righteous”.

    Whereas the amendment demanded by O’Rourke would dilute the rights of all parents because of the abuses of a minuscule minority, an analysis of the facts of this case indicate that restriction of parental access to alcohol would be a less drastic and more effective way of protecting children.

    If this appears disproportionate, consider that the “children’s rights” amendment is likely to mean the introduction of a child-protection system similar to that in the UK.

    The workings of this system are rarely reported here, except when there has been a total failure and a child has ended up dead. But Sunday Telegraph journalist Christopher Booker has written persistently and terrifyingly about the excesses of UK child protection: about the seizing of children from loving homes; about the criminalisation of innocent parents and the denial of their basic rights; about the role of so-called “child experts”, who make enormous sums by virtue of their involvement in the forced adoption and fostering industries.

    England, unlike Ireland, allows children, including those of married parents, to be adopted against their parents’ wishes.

    The trend in the UK towards taking children into care has increased dramatically since the Baby Peter case, in which a 17-month-old child died at the hands of his mother, her lover and a lodger, and in which social workers employed by Haringey council were found to have been grossly negligent. Recently, Haringey hit the headlines for different reasons, when a mother whose five children had been taken into care by the council had her newborn sixth baby seized by police and social workers while breastfeeding in a hospital ward.

    In a rare instance of a judge refusing to acquiesce in such procedures, Lord Justice Aikens expressed concerns that the authorities were using trumped-up allegations to take children from good families to meet adoption quotas, describing the actions of social workers in Devon as “more like Stalin’s Russia or Mao’s China than the west of England”.

    This is the system O’Rourke and others are assiduously working, with media complicity, to introduce here. Considered in this light, a ban on alcohol seems like a light-touch measure.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Continued.........
    The workings of this system are rarely reported here, except when there has been a total failure and a child has ended up dead. But Sunday Telegraph journalist Christopher Booker has written persistently and terrifyingly about the excesses of UK child protection: about the seizing of children from loving homes; about the criminalisation of innocent parents and the denial of their basic rights; about the role of so-called “child experts”, who make enormous sums by virtue of their involvement in the forced adoption and fostering industries.

    England, unlike Ireland, allows children, including those of married parents, to be adopted against their parents’ wishes.

    The trend in the UK towards taking children into care has increased dramatically since the Baby Peter case, in which a 17-month-old child died at the hands of his mother, her lover and a lodger, and in which social workers employed by Haringey council were found to have been grossly negligent. Recently, Haringey hit the headlines for different reasons, when a mother whose five children had been taken into care by the council had her newborn sixth baby seized by police and social workers while breastfeeding in a hospital ward.

    In a rare instance of a judge refusing to acquiesce in such procedures, Lord Justice Aikens expressed concerns that the authorities were using trumped-up allegations to take children from good families to meet adoption quotas, describing the actions of social workers in Devon as “more like Stalin’s Russia or Mao’s China than the west of England”.

    This is the system O’Rourke and others are assiduously working, with media complicity, to introduce here. Considered in this light, a ban on alcohol seems like a light-touch measure.

    ReplyDelete
  60. John Waters is a hero, he's the only Journalist that has consistently been writing about the Child Protection Racket for the past 10 years.

    He tells it like it is and it is a disaster for Children. People accuse him of having an agenda but his agenda is about being a journalist, the watchdogs of a democracy and an not being an entertainer like many of his collegues.

    John Waters and Kevin Myers are the only real Journalists left in Ireland but it seems the public prefer being told what to think or let others do the thinking for them. When these guys stop telling the truth it will be the day that democracy dies, like it did in the U.K. the day when Tony Blair was elected.

    ReplyDelete
  61. This appeared in the Irish Times as a reply to John Waters, how would you reply to Conor?

    Conor O'M
    This is the second time that John Waters has erroneously stated that Ireland does not allow for children of marital parents to be adopted against their parents wishes (the first having been on April 9 last). I would refer Mr Waters to the Adoption Act 1988, which expressly provides for such a procedure in Ireland. The constitutionality of this Act was upheld by the Supreme Court on an Article 26 reference by the President on the basis that where one constitutionally protected family fails a child, that child must be entitled to the benefit of being incorporated into another family. Mr Waters is of course entitled to express his opposition to the amendment, but he has a responsibility to do so without making patently incorrect statements on multiple occassions. These errors call into question his understanding of the true legal position and the impact of the proposed amendment.

    In order for the 1998 Act to be compliant with the Constitution, it provides that it must be shown that the parents have been failing in their duties towards their child for a continuous period of at least 12 months and it is likely that such failure will continue uninterrupted until the child reaches the age of 18 - which is, in practice, almost impossible to prove, given the speculative nature of the second part of the test.

    Consequently, children remain in the limbo of long term foster care with little prospect of being adopted and thus enjoying the protection of the provisions of the Constitution which protect the Family.

    Moreover, the enormously high threshold set for intervention of any sort, even falling short of adotion, leads to a general reticence on the part of social services and an excessive culture of non-intervention that contributes to cases such as the Roscommon case and the Monageer tragedy. The fact that an injunction was obtained against the HSE in the Roscommon case restraining them from intervening was directly related to the imbalance in the current consitutional framework - to say otherwise is just plain false, as p.39 of the report confirms. The sexual abuse mostly took place after this injunction was granted. The report also repeatedly states that the absence of a right for the children to have their voices heard in the process was a direct contributing factor in the continuation of the abuse over such a long period.

    The proposed constitutional amendment will not lead to our child care system replicating that in the UK - Article 41 will be untouched, and the Family in this jurisdiction will continue to have strongly rights which are not provided for in UK law to anything approaching the same extent. This is about a very slight recalibration of the scales, not a reversal of the present order of things.
    05 November 2010, 10:50:25

    ReplyDelete
  62. Conor O'M
    This is the second time that John Waters has erroneously stated that Ireland does not allow for children of marital parents to be adopted against their parents wishes (the first having been on April 9 last). I would refer Mr Waters to the Adoption Act 1988, which expressly provides for such a procedure in Ireland. The constitutionality of this Act was upheld by the Supreme Court on an Article 26 reference by the President on the basis that where one constitutionally protected family fails a child, that child must be entitled to the benefit of being incorporated into another family. Mr Waters is of course entitled to express his opposition to the amendment, but he has a responsibility to do so without making patently incorrect statements on multiple occassions. These errors call into question his understanding of the true legal position and the impact of the proposed amendment.

    Iin order for the 1998 Act to be compliant with the Constitution, it provides that it must be shown that the parents have been failing in their duties towards their child for a continuous period of at least 12 months and it is likely that such failure will continue uninterrupted until the child reaches the age of 18 - which is, in practice, almost impossible to prove, givent the speculative nature of the second part of the test. Consequently, children remain in the limbo of long term foster care with little prospect of being adopted and thus enjoying the protection of the provisions of the Constitution which protect the Family.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Continued...

    Moreover, the enormously high threshold set for intervention of any sort, even falling short of adotion, leads to a general reticence on the part of social services and an excessive culture of non-intervention that contributes to cases such as the Roscommon case and the Monageer tragedy. The fact that an injunction was obtained against the HSE in the Roscommon case restraining them from intervening was directly related to the imbalance in the current consitutional framework - to say otherwise is just plain false, as p.39 of the report confirms. The sexual abuse mostly took place after this injunction was granted. The report also repeatedly states that the absence of a right for the children to have their voices heard in the process was a direct contributing factor in the continuation of the abuse over such a long period.

    The proposed constitutional amendment will not lead to our child care system replicating that in the UK - Article 41 will be untouched, and the Family in this jurisdiction will continue to have strongly rights which are not provided for in UK law to anything approaching the same extent. This is about a very slight recalibration of the scales, not a reversal of the present order of things.
    05 November 2010, 10:50:

    ReplyDelete
  64. spent some time in children's homes
    was abused by stepfather and was given costudy to him
    youth club leader try to abusive me
    teacher tried to abuse's me while in 3rd year
    i will be happy to vote no
    the whole judicial has to be looked at

    ReplyDelete
  65. 20 Children have died in State "Care" in the past 9 months!
    http://www.thejournal.ie/22-children-have-died-while-under-state-care-since-march-report-2010-12/

    ReplyDelete
  66. This is BARBARIC!, don't let your kids see this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6TkqU7DkwU

    ReplyDelete
  67. Just in case YouTube remove it, here's another link
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-bet-we-can-find-5000-who-want-an-end-to-Social-Services-family-Genocide/166194826747447

    ReplyDelete
  68. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS1JqdE0ZDA

    ReplyDelete
  69. http://www.ionainstitute.eu/index.php?id=1126

    “Children's rights” amendment wouldn't have prevented Roscommon abuse case: Shannon

    It amazes me how these "Experts" just dont get it. Social Workers cant detect abuse because they are not trained investigators, same story with Baby P, Victoria Climbie, etc, etc, etc etc,

    Only specially trained Gardai should investigate child abuse.

    ReplyDelete
  70. HSE are now forcing parents and children to be vaccinated! apparently not immunizing your child can be seen as child abuse?

    I know of 2 cases where teenage girls are being forced to be immunized for HPV against their wishes. HPV is suspected to be the cause of Cervical Cancer.

    One case is a 16 year old girl in State "Care" who objects to the vaccination on the grounds that she is not sexually active and that she is over the age of 12 which makes her "Gillick Competent" in the eyes of the law.

    She was told that she will be restrained and given the injected against her will. This is clearly assault but yet another example of the HSE imposing their will on others.

    The Jugendampt in Germany also give children whatever drugs they deem necessary despite the wishes of children or parents and as a result, the US State Department are offering Political Asylyum to Germans caught up in their mess.

    What has happened in the UK is when parents refused to immunize their children, the children were taken and put up for adoption. If the Referendum gets passed in Ireland this is what's going to happen. Taking away the rights of parents and giving them to civil servants is an extremely bad idea.

    ReplyDelete
  71. No referendum on children’s rights on election day

    The Government will not be holding a constitutional referendum on children’s rights to coincide with the general election, a spokesman for Minister of State for Children Barry Andrews has said.

    However, a Bill for the holding of the referendum will still be published “in the next week or two”.

    “Given the truncated session that is left, it would be logistically and from a legislative point of view impossible to hold the referendum on the same day as the election, given that a referendum commission would need to be established and a public information campaign launched,” the spokesman said.

    The publication of the Bill leaves the incoming government with the choice of pursuing the matter further when it takes office.

    It is understood that the detail of the referendum, which runs to about 300 words, has been made available to the Opposition parties and the children’s lobby sector.

    No date has, as yet, been officially announced for the general election, but it is expected to take place on February 25th.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Poor Social Workers, again saying they are understaffed. In a 3 year period from 2004 to 2007 the numbers of children taken into "Care" TRIPLED. ie; they had more than enough staff to take more children but not enough to "care" for the thousands in "Care" who don't have a social worker appointed to them.

    To justify the increase, the population of Ireland would have had to triple OR the numbers of criminal convictions would have had to substantially increase, but neither event occurred. The "Shortage" of social workers is a manufactured problem designed to take more children and increase the size of the evil empire that has become the HSE.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0117/1224287680461.html

    ReplyDelete
  73. Kevin Myers: A constitutional declaration that we adore children is meaningless blather
    By Kevin Myers Tuesday March 09 2010

    By Friday, I no longer knew the difference between Tracey Fay, Danny Talbot and the somewhat inadequately named House of Horrors, wherein -- if I remember correctly, and I am not at all sure that I do -- the mother found her husband raping their teenage son. Perhaps she found this inspirational, because she went on to rape her 13-year-old son.

    Tracey Fay didn't need to be raped by a family member, because one way or another, the Republic of Ireland was, in its own idiosyncratic way, doing a pretty good job on her and her life. Ditto Danny Talbot.

    You probably have some trouble remembering which is which. Was it Danny Talbot who had his teeth knocked while he was in care? And was it an undernourished and filthy Tracey Fay who was found covered in lice, urine and faeces? No, that was Danny's brother, Joe. Or was it David Foley?

    No, on second thoughts, not him, because that poor teenager was already dead of a drugs overdose. And not Kim O'Donovan either: aged 15, she fatally overdosed. What they all had in common was that they were wards of the HSE.

    Apparently, some now declare that what we need to do to get everything right is to pass a constitutional amendment protecting the rights of children -- and then all will be well.
    continued.....

    ReplyDelete
  74. Maybe Tracey and Danny and David and Kim O'Donovan and the 20 or so others who died while in legal custody of the State will be raised from the dead, once we've waved the magic wand of a constitutional clause over Irish children.

    Why not? After all, hasn't the constitutional proclamation that the Irish language is the first language of the Irish people turned us into a nation of mellifluously spoken Gaeilgeoiri?

    Similarly, the constitutional proclamation that Ireland was de jure united brought about a united Ireland, did it not?

    So, of course, a constitutional declaration that we adore children to bits will bring about an earthly paradise for young human beings, like none else on earth.

    Words. It's all words. Meaningless, posturing, pious blather. All the constitutional and legal protection that children could possibly want is in our constitution and in our laws. All it requires is political will.

    So no, it's not good enough. At no level is it good enough.

    It is not good enough that the HSE did not pursue its lawful and constitutional obligations to protect children in the House of Horrors case, merely because of one court order which it could have opposed through legal methods.

    Moreover, we know that this mysterious creature, the Irish 'social worker', generally speaking, has an office-bound existence which ceases on a Friday evening, when she goes home. And yes, for the most part, it is a she.

    Remember. On Tracey Fay's first night of being homeless in 1998, the 15-year-old asked a social worker to stay with her until the out-of-hours social worker arrived. The social worker refused and left her alone at a shopping centre at 6.40pm.

    Tracey -- whose mother had knocked her teeth out when she was seven and who was the victim of five 'non-accidental' injuries before she reached the age of four -- then made her own way to Coolock garda station.

    Well, a constitutional amendment would certainly have prevented that kind of carry-on!

    That, dear readers, is a rhetorical device known as sarcasm. Which is perhaps the only tool capable of coping with this leviathan called the HSE, with its 100,000 employees (who, on average, each take 12 days' sick leave a year) and which cannot even be entrusted with a much-abused 15-year-old girl at 6.40pm without abandoning her.

    Naturally, the HSE cannot say whether any social workers have been disciplined or had their careers in any way impaired, by the litany of failures associated with the death of the 23 young people who have died in their charge. Probably not.

    For just being a social worker in HSE-land is a career in itself. Occupational duties are a purely voluntary addition to the existing pay-and-promotion structure.

    kmyers@independent.ie
    Kevin Myers
    Irish Independent

    ReplyDelete
  75. When I say the only 2 real Journalists left in Ireland are John Waters and Kevin Myers, you can see what I'm saying when you read the quality of the piece above.

    It's the function of a Journalist in a democracy to report what they see to the public, a critical eye on the Government. Most of what passes for journalism these days is simply cut& paste. Who needs people to simply re-issue Press Releases and just add their name to the release.

    Myers gets right to the heart of the issue here; who needs a Referendum? all we need is the political will.

    Despite all the rhetoric from the "Cheerleaders" of the Child "Protection" Industry that we need more laws, more draconian measures and some of the rubbish they spout, what we really need is to protect children.

    The current system by recently graduated social workers is not working, so why give them more power? wouldn't it just be better to replace them? Child abuse is a crime, it should be investigated by the Gardai.

    You would think that there are no laws protecting children they way some people go on but there are of course several Childrens Acts and many laws that cover every eventuallity.

    The thing Kevin Myers hasn't realized, at least in this article is that it's not really about "Rights" of children, it's about removing the rights of parents so that they can give children away for adoption which will save the taxpayer some money, but it's not a good thing for children or the taxpayer. The real beneficiaries will be the "Industry" and no doubt the "Cheerleaders" will all be rewarded with plum appointments when (IF) this comes to pass.

    There are already many people making $hitloads on the misery of these children, one billed the HSE for €9.6 Million last year. All of the children are then dumped on the streets at 18 and end up like Tracy, Danny, Daniel and 240 others. Meanwhile the HSE are growing the industry by taking more and more children every year. It's the ONLY growth industry left in Ireland.

    Joe Burns

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I'm 55, male, single, no children, no axe to grind, nothing to sell, nothing to gain, everything to lose.